Mary Baker (MB): What are the geographical/terrain differences between the Paso Robles East and West regions?

Shannon O’Neill (SO): The differences are great. The West side is mountainous and the East is mostly rolling hills and plains.

Justin Baldwin (JB): Yes, the West has higher elevations, steep hillsides, proximity to the ocean, absence of agua, and wooded terrain.

MB: What are the soil differences?

JB: The West has varied soils with high calcareous concentrations, high Ph’s, low fertility, and chemically bound up nutrients. The soils in the West are highly fractured, with lots of clay to absorb and retain water; they’re multi-layered and varied.

SO: But, even without getting into technical makeup of the soils, you can see that they are very different. The West side soils are more nutrient rich than the alluvial soil of the East side. The East side soils are more loam and clay loam, and are more nutrient deficient than the West side soils. What I found most interesting though, is the new revelation put forth by UC Davis soil researcher Debra Elliot Fisk, who is doing the Appellation study for the TTB. She says that there is no limestone anywhere in the Paso Robles appellation, especially on the West side.

This was interesting to me because for years the West side has been hyping its soils as limestone, and comparing it to the great vineyards in France. All that time, the mainstream wine media sucked it all down and regurgitated it in their articles as a reason for West side superiority over the East side. Gary Eberle has been saying for years that the supposed limestone is only mudstone. I am not a soil scientist but I sure hope it’s true.

Gary Eberle (GE): Well, I created the Paso Robles appellation in 1983 and did a lot of work on the soils and climate. I have also been making wine from vineyards all over the area.

Having said, that, your article Paso Robles, A Linguistic Geography of Wine is incorrect in that there is essentially no "limestone" in this area. There is a tiny outcropping in the extreme West side of San Luis Obispo County, but I believe it lies entirely outside of the Paso Robles appellation. We do have an abundance of "mudstone" which is entirely different than limestone. Limestone is calcium carbonate, and mudstone is calcium silicates. They are completely different in their properties and how they contribute to the terroir.

MB: What about the meteorological differences between East & West?

SO: The West side has 40+ inches of rain per year and the East side has only 12 inches per year. During the summer growing season, the daytime temperature of the West is considerably less than that of the East. Sometimes 10 to 15 degrees cooler.

GE: And these factors make a big difference. If you look at the soils and vegetation on the two sides, you cannot doubt where the fertile soils are. All the truck farming is on the West side. The East side cannot even grow poison oak, yet it is all over the West. The tremendous difference in rainfall between the two areas has a lot to do with this. The large rainfall on the hills to the West allows a lot more natural vegetation to grow and as it decomposes, it creates deep and fertile soils.

The East side does not get enough rain, and our soils are so open that until we found out how to bring up the deep water under this area, growing grapes, vegetables, or any thing else was not possible. Back then, this area was used for dry-farmed barley, and grazing cattle on poverty grass.

JB: So, in a nutshell, the West has double or higher rainfall than the East, cooler daytime highs and nighttime lows, marine and coastal mountain influences, and more stars . . . (laughs)!

MB: Perhaps you could each talk about where you are located and why you chose that specific location?

GE: I did my doctoral work at UC Davis with a major in fermentation science and a minor in viticulture. During my last year at Davis I made three trips to Paso Robles with Drs. Olmo and Alley, and with Jack Foote, who was the local farm advisor here at that time. We dug holes in multiple locations in what is now the Paso appellation, and took soils back to the soil science lab for analysis. It was the results of these reports and meteorological investigations that made me choose the location where I planted my vineyards.

The other major factor in my choice of the East side is that, for the most part, the soils are remarkably infertile. I decided to stay on the infertile soils as the Europeans have learned to do over the centuries when it comes to locating vineyards. Grapes have the ability to reach deep into the soil for their needs. You want the grapes to go deep. Don't grow them on fertile and heavy soils where they stay close to the surface.

SO: I can’t say I really chose one side over the other. We have one vineyard located on Union Road and one located on Creston Road. We also farm and make wine from a vineyard on Adelaida Road and source fruit from all over the West and East side as well as San Miguel, Indian Valley, and Monterey.

I chose the East locations for their unique microclimates, terroirs, and proximity to other premium vineyards producing high quality wines. I like to produce big extracted reds, which are more suited to East side vineyards. I chose the West side vineyard because of the ability to dry farm it, and for its old head-trained Zinfandel, which is more suited to the West side.

JB: Our site is the most northerly, highest in elevation, and furthest West of all the wineries and vineyards in our AVA. We chose the location because it’s beautiful, and for the soils, the southern slope, the amount of water available from our wells, the fact that nobody had ever planted grapes nearby, and because most of the land around me is in large parcels owned by the original Mennonite settlers. Even today there are less than 100 parcels in the 100 square miles surrounding my property.

MB: Do you think the two subregions have similar ‘Paso Robles’ taste characteristics? If so, what are they?

SO: No, the East side has more big, fruit driven wines that can accumulate higher sugars and more extracted flavors. The West side has more spicy, mineral type flavors that produce more stylistic wines. I love both styles, which is the reason why I source fruit from both areas. I don’t think one is better than the other, they are both great in their own ways.

JB: The West side wines have soft tannins, are accessible early on release, are often really big, fruit driven, and ripe.

MB: Do you think that the boundaries as described in the West Paso Robles AVA application are fair?

JB: The division as proposed is probably too broad, but it’s better than nothing at all. As we try to distinguish among over 600,000 acres in our AVA, divisions are more “fair” than trying to tell the world that we are homogeneous and that no differences exist in such a large AVA. But, in the long run, the move to more methodically divide up the AVA will prove to be more “fair.”

GE: I feel that The East/ West appellation split is being done only for marketing purposes. If you look at the way the West appellation is defined right now, it contains the hottest and coldest vineyards, the driest and wettest vineyards, the highest and lowest vineyards, and the most fractured and the most numerous soil types. In fact, the only thing that makes the West and East different, according to the current application, is on which side of Highway 101 they lie.

There are real differences between the East and West, and it looks like the area will eventually be split into smaller appellations, but I hope that the new appellations would be done in a way that makes some viticultural sense, and not just as a marketing ploy.

I have been making wine since 1973 from vineyards all over Paso Robles and I have learned that there are great grapes from all over the appellation, and great wines have been made from all over the appellation.

MB: What about creating an AVA for the Templeton Gap? How would you describe its location, length, and influence in both areas?

SO: I think the Templeton Gap is a loose term that can vary in area, as much as the summertime climate can change with the varying nighttime marine influence on the area. Basically, it’s Highway 46 West to around Vineyard Drive, and extending into the East side on Vineyard Road all the way to the El Pomar region.

JB: Templeton Gap probably crosses over the 101 Freeway and the Salinas River and extends south of Templeton in a sorta “L“ shape -- it is one of the most obvious “sub-appellations” in our AVA -- its heavy marine influence is a big factor in varietal selection and ripening.

MB: What about the San Miguel area?

JB: On the surface San Miguel does not seem to be limited to only the East side of 101/Salinas River line. It’s separate from the Las Tablas/Adelaida and Templeton Gap areas of the rest of the West.

SO: Personally, I love the San Miguel area. It has the biggest diurnal temperature flux in the world. That’s what makes great wine areas great, and the fruit I source from San Miguel turns into some of the best wines I produce.

I would conclude that neither side is better than the other, but they definitely are different. The current controversy has arisen because of the desire of some of the West side growers and wine producers to create their own sub-appellation. This desire is totally justified in the reality that there are huge differences in the soil types or terroirs, as well as environmental and climactic differences.

Here is where the problem arises. In the last ten years or so, the mainstream wine media has attached themselves to a few West side wineries, hyping them up with high scores and attributing this to the rich volcanic soils, limestone terroirs, and so on. These wineries certainly deserve the scores they are getting because there are certainly great wines coming from the West side. Unfortunately, all this media attention has implied that the West side is better than the East side, as clearly stated in many articles written in the last decade. This has ruffled the feathers of many East side growers and wine producers.

As a winemaker that makes small, premium quality wine lots of both West side and East side fruit, I can assure you that this perception of West being better than East is not true. As I mentioned before, the West side is definitely different, but not better. Because of misinformation from wine writers, the public has now latched on to this notion, and I believe this is the driving force behind the desire for the West side contingent to break away from the rest of the appellation, instead of for logical reasons based on actual terroir and climate differences.

I have experienced this in the tasting room when visitors ask if the grapes came from West side or East side. The media has created a West side elitism similar to when a customer comes in clutching his Wine Spectator, searching for a certain 92-point rated wine. A lot of this misconception comes from the notion that the East side consists mainly of big, bulk wine, corporate-owned wineries producing sub-par wines. Yes, there are a few 8,000 pound corporate gorillas operating on the East side, but there are also many small, family owned, hand-crafted wineries producing wines that are just as good as the wines being produced on the West side.

The dynamics on the East side are changing as more and more small wineries pop up. I do not believe the wine media has completely discovered what the East side has to offer or has given it a fair shake, partly because of the bias that has been present for so long. If the West side wineries must insist on splitting up the appellation, then we should continue on the path of doing so scientifically, and carve up the entire appellation instead of just West side and East side, as was originally proposed.

I have every confidence in the world that the scientists working on the appellation split will do a good job choosing the eventual boundaries. As I previously stated, we should not get caught up in the politics of what boundaries are going to suit what wineries, and whether or not a split sounds better for marketing purposes. We need to concentrate on promoting Paso Robles and stick together as a region instead of arguing about which areas are better.

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Our next interview will be with Dr. Tom Rice, a certified professional soil scientist, who will discuss his forthcoming book, Paso Robles: An American Terroir. Dr. Rice points out that while the soils of Paso Robles may not be "rich" in limestone, narrow, one or two foot thick ribbons of limestone lace the entire region, primarily as part of the normally deeper Monterey Formation, and these are frequently uplifted to the surface. Dr. Rice will discuss the unique geological history of the Central Coast, and how it differs from other west coast winegrowing communities.

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~ Mary Baker, Regional Correspondent – Paso Robles


To comment on Mary Baker’s writings and thoughts, contact her at m.baker@appellationamerica.com